Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200 MHz. Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.

Any recommendations?

TIA
S

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

2012/11/20 S Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ...>

> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that runs
> Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200 MHz.
> Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
>
>
"at 100-200 MHz"

"Something that runs Ubuntu"

is that realistic ? Do you mean an Ubuntu "server" flavor ?

FYI even you don't seem to be wondering of memory, it still take about 2Gb
of persistent memory out of the box.
I'm using a Debian server flavor that is about 500Mb out of the box and I
have to add something between 500 to 800Mb of libs + Orocos.

> Any recommendations?
>
> TIA
> S
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> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200 MHz. Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
>
> Any recommendations?
People here run on gumstix using Debian

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

2012/11/20 Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...>

> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
> > Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that
> runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200 MHz.
> Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
> >
> > Any recommendations?
> People here run on gumstix using Debian
>

We (at Onera and ISAE) have some Gumstix Overo boards with Debian+Xenomai
and start looking at OpenEmbedded builds.

>
> --
> Sylvain Joyeux (Dr.Ing.)
> Senior Researcher
>
> Space & Security Robotics
> Underwater Robotics
>
> !!! Achtung, neue Telefonnummer!!!
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>
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>
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>

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200 MHz. Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.

Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs Xenomai :)

I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These are all ARM
platforms, though.

/Sagar

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On Nov 20, 2012, at 07:50 , Sagar Behere wrote:

> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200 MHz. Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
>
> Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs Xenomai :)
>
> I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These are all ARM
> platforms, though.

Unfortunately those are all too fast (400-700 MHz)! :-( Gumstix at 400 MHz is the closest, and might be the right choice in the long run.

Thanks for the info.
S

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On 11/20/2012 01:59 PM, S Roderick wrote:
> On Nov 20, 2012, at 07:50 , Sagar Behere wrote:
>
>> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>>> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200 MHz. Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
>>
>> Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs Xenomai :)
>>
>> I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These are all ARM
>> platforms, though.
>
> Unfortunately those are all too fast (400-700 MHz)! :-( Gumstix at 400 MHz is the closest, and might be the right choice in the long run.

Just out of curiosity.. what kind of application needs require a slow
processor because a faster one won't do?

/Sagar

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:03 , Sagar Behere wrote:

> On 11/20/2012 01:59 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 07:50 , Sagar Behere wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>>>> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200 MHz. Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
>>>
>>> Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs Xenomai :)
>>>
>>> I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These are all ARM
>>> platforms, though.
>>
>> Unfortunately those are all too fast (400-700 MHz)! :-( Gumstix at 400 MHz is the closest, and might be the right choice in the long run.
>
> Just out of curiosity.. what kind of application needs require a slow processor because a faster one won't do?

Comparing performance of a COTS part to a non-COTS part that is really slow ... :-(

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

2012/11/20 Stephen Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ...>

> On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:03 , Sagar Behere wrote:
>
> > On 11/20/2012 01:59 PM, S Roderick wrote:
> >> On Nov 20, 2012, at 07:50 , Sagar Behere wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
> >>>> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that
> runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200 MHz.
> Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
> >>>
> >>> Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs Xenomai :)
> >>>
> >>> I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These are all ARM
> >>> platforms, though.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately those are all too fast (400-700 MHz)! :-( Gumstix at 400
> MHz is the closest, and might be the right choice in the long run.
> >
> > Just out of curiosity.. what kind of application needs require a slow
> processor because a faster one won't do?
>
> Comparing performance of a COTS part to a non-COTS part that is really
> slow ... :-(
>
>
also "just out of curiosity", how do you manage the compiled size outputs
of everything required for Orocos on such "low" platforms ? I still have
something like 400MB of lib+soft to put on board, which seems too much for
current "low" platforms?

> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Willy Lambert <lambert [dot] willy [..] ...> wrote:
>
>
> also "just out of curiosity", how do you manage the compiled size outputs of everything required for Orocos on such "low" platforms ? I still have something like 400MB of lib+soft to put on board, which seems too much for current "low" platforms?

Is that 400MB of Orocos components ? If so, there might be something
wrong with your setup. Do you include the 'extern template'
declarations and link your components with the typekits they are using
? Did you consider using clang++ as a compiler ?

Peter

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On 11/20/2012 02:20 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> 2012/11/20 Stephen Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ...>
>
>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:03 , Sagar Behere wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/20/2012 01:59 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>>>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 07:50 , Sagar Behere wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>>>>>> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that
>> runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200 MHz.
>> Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs Xenomai :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These are all ARM
>>>>> platforms, though.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately those are all too fast (400-700 MHz)! :-( Gumstix at 400
>> MHz is the closest, and might be the right choice in the long run.
>>>
>>> Just out of curiosity.. what kind of application needs require a slow
>> processor because a faster one won't do?
>>
>> Comparing performance of a COTS part to a non-COTS part that is really
>> slow ... :-(
>>
>>
> also "just out of curiosity", how do you manage the compiled size outputs
> of everything required for Orocos on such "low" platforms ? I still have
> something like 400MB of lib+soft to put on board, which seems too much for
> current "low" platforms?
>
I manage a custom gnu/linux based system that fit on 20Mb with everything for running orocos and our software (kernel + glibc + omniorb + orocos + opencv + lua + other misc packages)

I can give you more information if you need.

>
>
>
>
>> --
>> Orocos-Dev mailing list
>> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
>> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>>
>
>
>

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

2012/11/21 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>

> On 11/20/2012 02:20 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> > 2012/11/20 Stephen Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ...>
> >
> >> On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:03 , Sagar Behere wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 11/20/2012 01:59 PM, S Roderick wrote:
> >>>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 07:50 , Sagar Behere wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
> >>>>>> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU
> that
> >> runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200
> MHz.
> >> Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs Xenomai :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These are all ARM
> >>>>> platforms, though.
> >>>>
> >>>> Unfortunately those are all too fast (400-700 MHz)! :-( Gumstix at 400
> >> MHz is the closest, and might be the right choice in the long run.
> >>>
> >>> Just out of curiosity.. what kind of application needs require a slow
> >> processor because a faster one won't do?
> >>
> >> Comparing performance of a COTS part to a non-COTS part that is really
> >> slow ... :-(
> >>
> >>
> > also "just out of curiosity", how do you manage the compiled size outputs
> > of everything required for Orocos on such "low" platforms ? I still have
> > something like 400MB of lib+soft to put on board, which seems too much
> for
> > current "low" platforms?
> >
> I manage a custom gnu/linux based system that fit on 20Mb with everything
> for running orocos and our software (kernel + glibc + omniorb + orocos +
> opencv + lua + other misc packages)
>
> I can give you more information if you need.
>
>
Yes please, I'm very curious about this.

> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> --
> >> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> >> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> >> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On 11/21/2012 11:17 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> 2012/11/21 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>
>> I manage a custom gnu/linux based system that fit on 20Mb with everything
>> for running orocos and our software (kernel + glibc + omniorb + orocos +
>> opencv + lua + other misc packages)
>>
>> I can give you more information if you need.
>>
>>
> Yes please, I'm very curious about this.
>

I'm currently use a custom build infrastructure ( http://gitorious.org/bif ). This infrastructure is just a collection of shell functions that allow to ease the development of recipes ( here is the orocos recipe http://gitorious.org/bif/bif/blobs/master/framework/packages/orocos-rtt/... ).

Nothing really new here, just an automated way of compiling orocos (like the bitbake recipes of OE, or Makefile of buildroot), and crosscompile capabilities.

As those others tools i can select the files i want in my target packages.

So whatever you choose (yokto, standalone oe, buildroot, ...), you will need some knowledge of minimal requirement.

Here is what i use ( http://gitorious.org/bif/bif/blobs/master/framework/systems/pip22/functi... ) :

- a libc : i use eglibc which is highly tunable, i've never tryed uclibc...
- a base system (like busybox)
- ncurses or even readline
- boost
- omniORB or ACE (i only tested omniorb)
- orocos-rtt

I have other packages related to our application.

I remember a total of ~20Mb of tar.xz (or tar.bz2) packages... No very precise.

I can give you a more precise count tomorrow at work, of the rom occupation.

Cheers

Paul.

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

2012/11/27 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>

> On 11/21/2012 11:17 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> > 2012/11/21 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>
> >> I manage a custom gnu/linux based system that fit on 20Mb with
> everything
> >> for running orocos and our software (kernel + glibc + omniorb + orocos +
> >> opencv + lua + other misc packages)
> >>
> >> I can give you more information if you need.
> >>
> >>
> > Yes please, I'm very curious about this.
> >
>
> I'm currently use a custom build infrastructure ( http://gitorious.org/bif). This infrastructure is just a collection of shell functions that allow
> to ease the development of recipes ( here is the orocos recipe
> http://gitorious.org/bif/bif/blobs/master/framework/packages/orocos-rtt/...).
>
> Nothing really new here, just an automated way of compiling orocos (like
> the bitbake recipes of OE, or Makefile of buildroot), and crosscompile
> capabilities.
>
>
I successfuly used Buildroot 2011.05 in a previous project using Orocos
2.3.1 on an ARM Cortex-A9 board. I patched buildroot to support the
required packages (boost, omniorb, orocos-log4cpp, orocos-rtt, orocos-ocl,
etc.). You can find the patched version in the "2011.05-sm" branch
available on my github account (
https://github.com/phamelin/buildroot/tree/2011.05-sm). You will have to
modify the scripts since the source packages were retrieved from a private
server. As I remember, the whole operating system including Orocos was
fitting on a 32 Mb SD card.

Philippe

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

2012/11/27 Philippe Hamelin <philippe [dot] hamelin [..] ...>:
> 2012/11/27 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>
>>
>> On 11/21/2012 11:17 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>> > 2012/11/21 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>
>> >> I manage a custom gnu/linux based system that fit on 20Mb with
>> >> everything
>> >> for running orocos and our software (kernel + glibc + omniorb + orocos
>> >> +
>> >> opencv + lua + other misc packages)
>> >>
>> >> I can give you more information if you need.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Yes please, I'm very curious about this.
>> >
>>
>> I'm currently use a custom build infrastructure ( http://gitorious.org/bif
>> ). This infrastructure is just a collection of shell functions that allow to
>> ease the development of recipes ( here is the orocos recipe
>> http://gitorious.org/bif/bif/blobs/master/framework/packages/orocos-rtt/...
>> ).
>>
>> Nothing really new here, just an automated way of compiling orocos (like
>> the bitbake recipes of OE, or Makefile of buildroot), and crosscompile
>> capabilities.
>>
>
> I successfuly used Buildroot 2011.05 in a previous project using Orocos
> 2.3.1 on an ARM Cortex-A9 board. I patched buildroot to support the required
> packages (boost, omniorb, orocos-log4cpp, orocos-rtt, orocos-ocl, etc.). You
> can find the patched version in the "2011.05-sm" branch available on my
> github account (https://github.com/phamelin/buildroot/tree/2011.05-sm). You
> will have to modify the scripts since the source packages were retrieved
> from a private server. As I remember, the whole operating system including
> Orocos was fitting on a 32 Mb SD card.
>
> Philippe
>

I confirm that with a simple configuration you can build a minimal
linux with a "minimal" Orocos in something less than 50Mb (I currently
have 34M, but I'm not chasing size, and all option of orocs are not
activated).

Note that this is only the system/framework files. My application
binaries will take some place over this. It's around 10 times ligther
than a default minimal Debian installation. But this minimal system is
not equivalent in term of functionnalities.

FYI, my experience of all this (Debian base+custom dfistribution, or
Buildroot from scratch system) told me that you gain a lot in size and
boot time (this is the good indirect news), but it'll cost much more
to setup the first system or to integrate new stuff (first is just an
apt-get install, second is a package creation if it doesn't exists
yet).

When my application will be working on my minimal system I'll try in
qemu to lower the CPU/Memory available to see what's happening.

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

Hi,

may I ask which ARM Cortex-A9 board are you using?
I am personally playing around with Beaglebone and xenomai (I will be happy
to share tutorials soon).

Davide

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

2012/11/27 Philippe Hamelin <philippe [dot] hamelin [..] ...>
>
> 2012/11/27 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>
>>
>> On 11/21/2012 11:17 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>> > 2012/11/21 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>
>> >> I manage a custom gnu/linux based system that fit on 20Mb with everything
>> >> for running orocos and our software (kernel + glibc + omniorb + orocos +
>> >> opencv + lua + other misc packages)
>> >>
>> >> I can give you more information if you need.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Yes please, I'm very curious about this.
>> >
>>
>> I'm currently use a custom build infrastructure ( http://gitorious.org/bif ). This infrastructure is just a collection of shell functions that allow to ease the development of recipes ( here is the orocos recipe http://gitorious.org/bif/bif/blobs/master/framework/packages/orocos-rtt/... ).
>>
>> Nothing really new here, just an automated way of compiling orocos (like the bitbake recipes of OE, or Makefile of buildroot), and crosscompile capabilities.
>>
>
> I successfuly used Buildroot 2011.05 in a previous project using Orocos 2.3.1 on an ARM Cortex-A9 board. I patched buildroot to support the required packages (boost, omniorb, orocos-log4cpp, orocos-rtt, orocos-ocl, etc.). You can find the patched version in the "2011.05-sm" branch available on my github account (https://github.com/phamelin/buildroot/tree/2011.05-sm). You will have to modify the scripts since the source packages were retrieved from a private server. As I remember, the whole operating system including Orocos was fitting on a 32 Mb SD card.

I saw this :
" --embedded Disable Scripting, Exceptions and reduce the
type system."
in your orocos-rtt configure
(https://github.com/phamelin/orocos-rtt/blob/master/configure)

Is this one of the key to reduce the size of the libs ?

>
>
> Philippe
>

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

2012/11/27 Willy Lambert <lambert [dot] willy [..] ...>

> 2012/11/27 Philippe Hamelin <philippe [dot] hamelin [..] ...>
> >
> > 2012/11/27 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>
> >>
> >> On 11/21/2012 11:17 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> >> > 2012/11/21 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>
> >> >> I manage a custom gnu/linux based system that fit on 20Mb with
> everything
> >> >> for running orocos and our software (kernel + glibc + omniorb +
> orocos +
> >> >> opencv + lua + other misc packages)
> >> >>
> >> >> I can give you more information if you need.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > Yes please, I'm very curious about this.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I'm currently use a custom build infrastructure (
> http://gitorious.org/bif ). This infrastructure is just a collection of
> shell functions that allow to ease the development of recipes ( here is the
> orocos recipe
> http://gitorious.org/bif/bif/blobs/master/framework/packages/orocos-rtt/...).
> >>
> >> Nothing really new here, just an automated way of compiling orocos
> (like the bitbake recipes of OE, or Makefile of buildroot), and
> crosscompile capabilities.
> >>
> >
> > I successfuly used Buildroot 2011.05 in a previous project using Orocos
> 2.3.1 on an ARM Cortex-A9 board. I patched buildroot to support the
> required packages (boost, omniorb, orocos-log4cpp, orocos-rtt, orocos-ocl,
> etc.). You can find the patched version in the "2011.05-sm" branch
> available on my github account (
> https://github.com/phamelin/buildroot/tree/2011.05-sm). You will have to
> modify the scripts since the source packages were retrieved from a private
> server. As I remember, the whole operating system including Orocos was
> fitting on a 32 Mb SD card.
>
>
> I saw this :
> " --embedded Disable Scripting, Exceptions and reduce the
> type system."
> in your orocos-rtt configure
> (https://github.com/phamelin/orocos-rtt/blob/master/configure)
>
> Is this one of the key to reduce the size of the libs ?
>
>
We don't use the configure script. We only use the CMake file as you can
see in the Buildroot makefile:

https://github.com/phamelin/buildroot/blob/2011.05-sm/package/orocos-rtt...

Philippe

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

2012/11/27 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>

> On 11/21/2012 11:17 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>
>> 2012/11/21 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>
>>
>>> I manage a custom gnu/linux based system that fit on 20Mb with everything
>>> for running orocos and our software (kernel + glibc + omniorb + orocos +
>>> opencv + lua + other misc packages)
>>>
>>> I can give you more information if you need.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes please, I'm very curious about this.
>>
>>
> I'm currently use a custom build infrastructure ( http://gitorious.org/bif). This infrastructure is just a collection of shell functions that allow
> to ease the development of recipes ( here is the orocos recipe
> http://gitorious.org/bif/bif/**blobs/master/framework/**
> packages/orocos-rtt/orocos-**rtt.sh<http://gitorious.org/bif/bif/blobs/master/framework/packages/orocos-rtt/orocos-rtt.sh>).
>
>
thanks for this, I'll have a look. I migth have investigation to reach
that low size.
On my system just Orocos is biggest than your dependencies+orocos package.

Nothing really new here, just an automated way of compiling orocos (like
> the bitbake recipes of OE, or Makefile of buildroot), and crosscompile
> capabilities.
>
> As those others tools i can select the files i want in my target packages.
>
> So whatever you choose (yokto, standalone oe, buildroot, ...), you will
> need some knowledge of minimal requirement.
>
> Here is what i use ( http://gitorious.org/bif/bif/**
> blobs/master/framework/**systems/pip22/functions/env_**sys.sh<http://gitorious.org/bif/bif/blobs/master/framework/systems/pip22/functions/env_sys.sh>) :
>
> - a libc : i use eglibc which is highly tunable, i've never tryed uclibc...
> - a base system (like busybox)
> - ncurses or even readline
> - boost
> - omniORB or ACE (i only tested omniorb)
> - orocos-rtt
>
> I have other packages related to our application.
>
> I remember a total of ~20Mb of tar.xz (or tar.bz2) packages... No very
> precise.
>
>
Do you mean you uncompress them to RAM on boot ? or is it just the delivery
that is uncompress on your target ? (The question behind this is what is
the required size on board to run Orocos).

> I can give you a more precise count tomorrow at work, of the rom
> occupation.
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On 11/27/2012 09:12 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> Do you mean you uncompress them to RAM on boot ? or is it just the delivery
> that is uncompress on your target ? (The question behind this is what is
> the required size on board to run Orocos).

I have all packages in ROM compressed as tar.bz2. I run the system in RAM only. I only have one mount point for non-volatile data (logs).

However, I haven't recently measured the memory usage.

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

It looks like a lot of people are doing similar things. For the benefit of
future generations, could someone write up a wiki page for how to set up
Orocos and related software on various small form-factor computers?

Geoff

On 22 November 2012 07:17, Willy Lambert <lambert [dot] willy [..] ...> wrote:

>
>
> 2012/11/21 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>
>
>> On 11/20/2012 02:20 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>> > 2012/11/20 Stephen Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ...>
>> >
>> >> On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:03 , Sagar Behere wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 11/20/2012 01:59 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>> >>>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 07:50 , Sagar Behere wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>> >>>>>> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU
>> that
>> >> runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200
>> MHz.
>> >> Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs Xenomai :)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These are all ARM
>> >>>>> platforms, though.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Unfortunately those are all too fast (400-700 MHz)! :-( Gumstix at
>> 400
>> >> MHz is the closest, and might be the right choice in the long run.
>> >>>
>> >>> Just out of curiosity.. what kind of application needs require a slow
>> >> processor because a faster one won't do?
>> >>
>> >> Comparing performance of a COTS part to a non-COTS part that is really
>> >> slow ... :-(
>> >>
>> >>
>> > also "just out of curiosity", how do you manage the compiled size
>> outputs
>> > of everything required for Orocos on such "low" platforms ? I still have
>> > something like 400MB of lib+soft to put on board, which seems too much
>> for
>> > current "low" platforms?
>> >
>> I manage a custom gnu/linux based system that fit on 20Mb with everything
>> for running orocos and our software (kernel + glibc + omniorb + orocos +
>> opencv + lua + other misc packages)
>>
>> I can give you more information if you need.
>>
>>
> Yes please, I'm very curious about this.
>
>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> --
>> >> Orocos-Dev mailing list
>> >> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
>> >> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Orocos-Dev mailing list
>> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
>> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>>
>
>
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>
>

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On 11/22/2012 08:41 AM, Geoffrey Biggs wrote:
> It looks like a lot of people are doing similar things. For the benefit
> of future generations, could someone write up a wiki page for how to set
> up Orocos and related software on various small form-factor computers?

http://www.orocos.org/forum/orocos/orocos-users/howto-cross-compiling-or...

I have also documented experience installing debian+xenomai on the ARM at

http://wiki.gumstix.org/index.php?title=Installing_Debian_and_Xenomai_on...

which should be relevant.

I'm getting a couple of Raspberry Pi's and Beaglebones just before
Christmas, and will be happy to document the installation procedures if
I get permissions to edit the wiki.

/Sagar

> On 22 November 2012 07:17, Willy Lambert <lambert [dot] willy [..] ...
> <mailto:lambert [dot] willy [..] ...>> wrote:
>
>
>
> 2012/11/21 Paul Chavent <paul [dot] chavent [..] ...
> <mailto:paul [dot] chavent [..] ...>>
>
> On 11/20/2012 02:20 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> > 2012/11/20 Stephen Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ...
> <mailto:kiwi [dot] net [..] ...>>
> >
> >> On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:03 , Sagar Behere wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 11/20/2012 01:59 PM, S Roderick wrote:
> >>>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 07:50 , Sagar Behere wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
> >>>>>> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the
> shelf CPU that
> >> runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part
> at 100-200 MHz.
> >> Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs
> Xenomai :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These
> are all ARM
> >>>>> platforms, though.
> >>>>
> >>>> Unfortunately those are all too fast (400-700 MHz)! :-(
> Gumstix at 400
> >> MHz is the closest, and might be the right choice in the
> long run.
> >>>
> >>> Just out of curiosity.. what kind of application needs
> require a slow
> >> processor because a faster one won't do?
> >>
> >> Comparing performance of a COTS part to a non-COTS part that
> is really
> >> slow ... :-(
> >>
> >>
> > also "just out of curiosity", how do you manage the compiled
> size outputs
> > of everything required for Orocos on such "low" platforms ? I
> still have
> > something like 400MB of lib+soft to put on board, which seems
> too much for
> > current "low" platforms?
> >
> I manage a custom gnu/linux based system that fit on 20Mb with
> everything for running orocos and our software (kernel + glibc +
> omniorb + orocos + opencv + lua + other misc packages)
>
> I can give you more information if you need.
>
>
> Yes please, I'm very curious about this.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> --
> >> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> >> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> <mailto:Orocos-Dev [..] ...>
> >> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> <mailto:Orocos-Dev [..] ...>
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>
>
>
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> <mailto:Orocos-Dev [..] ...>
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>
>
>
>

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On 22 November 2012 17:14, Sagar Behere <sagar [dot] behere [..] ...> wrote:

> On 11/22/2012 08:41 AM, Geoffrey Biggs wrote:
> > It looks like a lot of people are doing similar things. For the benefit
> > of future generations, could someone write up a wiki page for how to set
> > up Orocos and related software on various small form-factor computers?
>
>
> http://www.orocos.org/forum/orocos/orocos-users/howto-cross-compiling-or...
>
> I have also documented experience installing debian+xenomai on the ARM at
>
>
> http://wiki.gumstix.org/index.php?title=Installing_Debian_and_Xenomai_on...
>
> which should be relevant.
>
> I'm getting a couple of Raspberry Pi's and Beaglebones just before
> Christmas, and will be happy to document the installation procedures if
> I get permissions to edit the wiki.
>

It's this installation stuff that particularly interests me.
Cross-compiling Orocos is relatively straight-forward compared with dealing
with each board's own little quirks.

Geoff

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 05:32:31PM +0900, Geoffrey Biggs wrote:
>
>
>
> On 22 November 2012 17:14, Sagar Behere <sagar [dot] behere [..] ...> wrote:
>
> On 11/22/2012 08:41 AM, Geoffrey Biggs wrote:
> > It looks like a lot of people are doing similar things. For the benefit
> > of future generations, could someone write up a wiki page for how to set
> > up Orocos and related software on various small form-factor computers?
>
> http://www.orocos.org/forum/orocos/orocos-users/
> howto-cross-compiling-orocos-toolchain
>
> I have also documented experience installing debian+xenomai on the ARM at
>
> http://wiki.gumstix.org/index.php?title=
> Installing_Debian_and_Xenomai_on_gumstix_Overo
>
> which should be relevant.
>
> I'm getting a couple of Raspberry Pi's and Beaglebones just before
> Christmas, and will be happy to document the installation procedures if
> I get permissions to edit the wiki.
>
>
> It's this installation stuff that particularly interests me. Cross-compiling
> Orocos is relatively straight-forward compared with dealing with each board's
> own little quirks.

And a good reason to finally switch to a proper, community supported
build infrastructure that can handle different architectures. As for
example the yocto project.

Markus

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

> > It's this installation stuff that particularly interests me.
> Cross-compiling
> > Orocos is relatively straight-forward compared with dealing with each
> board's
> > own little quirks.
>
> And a good reason to finally switch to a proper, community supported
> build infrastructure that can handle different architectures. As for
> example the yocto project.
>

+1

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

2012/11/22 Davide Faconti <faconti [..] ...>

>
> > It's this installation stuff that particularly interests me.
>> Cross-compiling
>> > Orocos is relatively straight-forward compared with dealing with each
>> board's
>> > own little quirks.
>>
>> And a good reason to finally switch to a proper, community supported
>> build infrastructure that can handle different architectures. As for
>> example the yocto project.
>>
>
> +1
>

+1

I personally tried to define some bitbake recipes for the Orocos toolchain
some months ago, but I found no time to proof-read and proof-test them to
share them.
It is still work in progress, but I can share them now if someone wants to
look at them (even if it is for the old-way of using openembedded on
Gumistix, and the Yocto project has gone a step forward since then).

If anybody else has such examples/tutorials/installation process, we should
find a place where to share them!

Charles

>
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>
>

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

it isn't really related to this thread (so i apologize in advance), but i
am currently trying to crosscompile Orocos on an ARM processor (on a
Beaglebone).

Does any noble soul have any idea of how difficult easy it is?
I don't even dare to ask if any tutorial exist somewhere to do that ;)

Davide

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On 11/21/2012 09:49 PM, Davide Faconti wrote:
>
> it isn't really related to this thread (so i apologize in advance), but
> i am currently trying to crosscompile Orocos on an ARM processor (on a
> Beaglebone).

Oh nice! I'm gonna do that too. My beaglebone is in the mail :)

> Does any noble soul have any idea of how difficult easy it is?
> I don't even dare to ask if any tutorial exist somewhere to do that ;)

It isn't very difficult to get the RTT working. I did it for the
gumstix, which is also an ARM processor, so the procedure shouldn't be
different. I documented the procedure here

http://techblog.sagar.se/blog/2012/06/30/cross-compiling-the-orocos-tool...

Do let me know if it helps in anyway. I'll feel happy :)

/Sagar

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

you made my day man! :D

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Sagar Behere <sagar [dot] behere [..] ...>wrote:

> On 11/21/2012 09:49 PM, Davide Faconti wrote:
> >
> > it isn't really related to this thread (so i apologize in advance), but
> > i am currently trying to crosscompile Orocos on an ARM processor (on a
> > Beaglebone).
>
> Oh nice! I'm gonna do that too. My beaglebone is in the mail :)
>
> > Does any noble soul have any idea of how difficult easy it is?
> > I don't even dare to ask if any tutorial exist somewhere to do that ;)
>
> It isn't very difficult to get the RTT working. I did it for the
> gumstix, which is also an ARM processor, so the procedure shouldn't be
> different. I documented the procedure here
>
>
> http://techblog.sagar.se/blog/2012/06/30/cross-compiling-the-orocos-tool...
>
> Do let me know if it helps in anyway. I'll feel happy :)
>
> /Sagar
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

My 2 cents.

If you really want to cut so much the cost of parts, you don't want Linux
at all (and neither Orocos, sorry).
If you DO want linux, then ARM processors are nowadays more and more
affordable.

Davide

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:31 , Davide Faconti wrote:

> My 2 cents.
>
> If you really want to cut so much the cost of parts, you don't want Linux at all (and neither Orocos, sorry).
> If you DO want linux, then ARM processors are nowadays more and more affordable.

There's a lot more to the story than you realise, or I can say ... but I appreicate the (correct) advice. :-)
S

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:20 , Willy Lambert wrote:

>
>
> 2012/11/20 Stephen Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ...>
> On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:03 , Sagar Behere wrote:
>
> > On 11/20/2012 01:59 PM, S Roderick wrote:
> >> On Nov 20, 2012, at 07:50 , Sagar Behere wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
> >>>> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200 MHz. Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
> >>>
> >>> Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs Xenomai :)
> >>>
> >>> I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These are all ARM
> >>> platforms, though.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately those are all too fast (400-700 MHz)! :-( Gumstix at 400 MHz is the closest, and might be the right choice in the long run.
> >
> > Just out of curiosity.. what kind of application needs require a slow processor because a faster one won't do?
>
> Comparing performance of a COTS part to a non-COTS part that is really slow ... :-(
>
>
> also "just out of curiosity", how do you manage the compiled size outputs of everything required for Orocos on such "low" platforms ? I still have something like 400MB of lib+soft to put on board, which seems too much for current "low" platforms?

Good question. We're still working on that ... currently worried about CPU resources, not RAM ...
S

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

2012/11/20 Stephen Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ...>

> On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:20 , Willy Lambert wrote:
>
>
>
> 2012/11/20 Stephen Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ...>
>
>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:03 , Sagar Behere wrote:
>>
>> > On 11/20/2012 01:59 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>> >> On Nov 20, 2012, at 07:50 , Sagar Behere wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>> >>>> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU
>> that runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200
>> MHz. Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
>> >>>
>> >>> Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs Xenomai :)
>> >>>
>> >>> I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These are all ARM
>> >>> platforms, though.
>> >>
>> >> Unfortunately those are all too fast (400-700 MHz)! :-( Gumstix at 400
>> MHz is the closest, and might be the right choice in the long run.
>> >
>> > Just out of curiosity.. what kind of application needs require a slow
>> processor because a faster one won't do?
>>
>> Comparing performance of a COTS part to a non-COTS part that is really
>> slow ... :-(
>>
>>
> also "just out of curiosity", how do you manage the compiled size outputs
> of everything required for Orocos on such "low" platforms ? I still have
> something like 400MB of lib+soft to put on board, which seems too much for
> current "low" platforms?
>
>
> Good question. We're still working on that ... currently worried about CPU
> resources, not RAM ...
> S
>

In fact I was worrying about persistent memory more than for RAM, but RAM
consumption is certainly a problem too. In a word, if you are interested in
low cost Orocos system, the CPU constraint is not the only thing to bother
on.

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On 11/20/2012 03:38 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>
>
> 2012/11/20 Stephen Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ... <mailto:kiwi [dot] net [..] ...>>
>
> On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:20 , Willy Lambert wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/20 Stephen Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ... <mailto:kiwi [dot] net [..] ...>>
>>
>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 08:03 , Sagar Behere wrote:
>>
>> > On 11/20/2012 01:59 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>> >> On Nov 20, 2012, at 07:50 , Sagar Behere wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>> >>>> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200 MHz. Something
>> that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
>> >>>
>> >>> Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs Xenomai :)
>> >>>
>> >>> I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These are all ARM
>> >>> platforms, though.
>> >>
>> >> Unfortunately those are all too fast (400-700 MHz)! :-( Gumstix at 400 MHz is the closest, and might be the right choice in the long run.
>> >
>> > Just out of curiosity.. what kind of application needs require a slow processor because a faster one won't do?
>>
>> Comparing performance of a COTS part to a non-COTS part that is really slow ... :-(
>>
>>
>> also "just out of curiosity", how do you manage the compiled size outputs of everything required for Orocos on such "low" platforms ? I still have something like
>> 400MB of lib+soft to put on board, which seems too much for current "low" platforms?
>
> Good question. We're still working on that ... currently worried about CPU resources, not RAM ...
> S
>
>
> In fact I was worrying about persistent memory more than for RAM, but RAM consumption is certainly a problem too. In a word, if you are interested in low cost Orocos
> system, the CPU constraint is not the only thing to bother on.
raspberry pi model B has 512MB RAM, which should do the job, no?

nick
>
>
>

Cheap slow CPU that runs Orocos?

On 11/20/2012 01:50 PM, Sagar Behere wrote:
> On 11/20/2012 01:32 PM, S Roderick wrote:
>> Can anyone recommend a relatively cheap, slow, off the shelf CPU that
>> runs Orocos. I'm thinking of an Atom, VIA, or PXA type part at 100-200
>> MHz. Something that runs Ubuntu would be nice.
>
> Raspberry Pi is my current favorite. Costs $25, runs Xenomai :)
>
> I've also run orocos on Beagleboard and Gumstix. These are all ARM
> platforms, though.

And here is a guide I wrote a while ago on how to get Debian+Xenomai up
and running on gumstix

http://wiki.gumstix.org/index.php?title=Installing_Debian_and_Xenomai_on...

/Sagar