Do we know about these: orocos_controllers on ROS.org...?

FYI

<http://www.ros.org/wiki/orocos_controllers>
To what extent are orocos developers involved in this? Should we?

Herman

Do we know about these: orocos_controllers on ROS.org...?

On Monday 08 November 2010 09:57:30 Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
> FYI
>
> <http://www.ros.org/wiki/orocos_controllers>
> To what extent are orocos developers involved in this? Should we?

I have been silently tracking the mails on ros-users, being tempted to jump
in.

The name is a bit ambiguous from a 'branding' point of view (who is
responsible for that code), but I'm still in a wait-and-see mode and I applaud
any attempt of someone trying to set one up that integrates nicely with ROS.
It's only by doing it that we can find out what works best...

Peter

Do we know about these: orocos_controllers on ROS.org...?

On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, Peter Soetens wrote:

> On Monday 08 November 2010 09:57:30 Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
>> FYI
>>
>> <http://www.ros.org/wiki/orocos_controllers>
>> To what extent are orocos developers involved in this? Should we?
>
> I have been silently tracking the mails on ros-users, being tempted to jump
> in.
>
> The name is a bit ambiguous from a 'branding' point of view (who is
> responsible for that code), but I'm still in a wait-and-see mode and I applaud
> any attempt of someone trying to set one up that integrates nicely with ROS.
> It's only by doing it that we can find out what works best...

True. But the "branding" aspect should not be neglected. And I'm sure that
the initiative under consideration here is indeed laudable, but it would
have received a lot of help from this list _before_ it was released and
published as a ROS package...

Herman

Do we know about these: orocos_controllers on ROS.org...?

2010/11/8 Herman Bruyninckx <Herman [dot] Bruyninckx [..] ...>

> On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, Peter Soetens wrote:
>
> > On Monday 08 November 2010 09:57:30 Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
> >> FYI
> >>
> >> <http://www.ros.org/wiki/orocos_controllers>
> >> To what extent are orocos developers involved in this? Should we?
> >
> > I have been silently tracking the mails on ros-users, being tempted to
> jump
> > in.
> >
> > The name is a bit ambiguous from a 'branding' point of view (who is
> > responsible for that code), but I'm still in a wait-and-see mode and I
> applaud
> > any attempt of someone trying to set one up that integrates nicely with
> ROS.
> > It's only by doing it that we can find out what works best...
>
> True. But the "branding" aspect should not be neglected. And I'm sure that
> the initiative under consideration here is indeed laudable, but it would
> have received a lot of help from this list _before_ it was released and
> published as a ROS package...
>
The name of my stacks could be a bit ambiguous beceose i am not OROCOS
developer, but it well describes content of those stacks. I have discussed
design of those stacks on ros and orocos mailing-list. These stacks have not
been released, but are publicly available. I thought that prof-of-concept
implementation whould be good starting point for discution on future of
OROCOS-ROS integration.

>
> Herman
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>

Do we know about these: orocos_controllers on ROS.org...?

I going to do the release of my stacks. This would be 0.1 version
(completely experimental, unreviewed ).
So this would be good time to change names of those, if it's really
necessary.
I would like to know your opinions about names of my stack. And possibly
proposals for better ones.

Pozdrawiam
Konrad Banachowicz

2010/11/8 Konrad Banachowicz <konradb3 [..] ...>

> 2010/11/8 Herman Bruyninckx <Herman [dot] Bruyninckx [..] ...>
>
>> On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, Peter Soetens wrote:
>>
>> > On Monday 08 November 2010 09:57:30 Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
>> >> FYI
>> >>
>> >> <http://www.ros.org/wiki/orocos_controllers>
>> >> To what extent are orocos developers involved in this? Should we?
>> >
>> > I have been silently tracking the mails on ros-users, being tempted to
>> jump
>> > in.
>> >
>> > The name is a bit ambiguous from a 'branding' point of view (who is
>> > responsible for that code), but I'm still in a wait-and-see mode and I
>> applaud
>> > any attempt of someone trying to set one up that integrates nicely with
>> ROS.
>> > It's only by doing it that we can find out what works best...
>>
>> True. But the "branding" aspect should not be neglected. And I'm sure that
>> the initiative under consideration here is indeed laudable, but it would
>> have received a lot of help from this list _before_ it was released and
>> published as a ROS package...
>>
> The name of my stacks could be a bit ambiguous beceose i am not OROCOS
> developer, but it well describes content of those stacks. I have discussed
> design of those stacks on ros and orocos mailing-list. These stacks have not
> been released, but are publicly available. I thought that prof-of-concept
> implementation whould be good starting point for discution on future of
> OROCOS-ROS integration.
>
>>
>> Herman
>> --
>> Orocos-Dev mailing list
>> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
>> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>>
>
>

Do we know about these: orocos_controllers on ROS.org...?

On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Konrad Banachowicz wrote:

> I going to do the release of my stacks. This would be 0.1 version (completely
> experimental, unreviewed ).
> So this would be good time to change names of those, if it's really necessary.
> I would like to know your opinions about names of my stack. And possibly
> proposals for better ones.

Good! I think the best way to start is that you explain to this list what
your aims, ambitions and approach are with your initiative.

> Pozdrawiam
> Konrad Banachowicz

Herman

PS Please do not top post...
>
>
> 2010/11/8 Konrad Banachowicz <konradb3 [..] ...>
> 2010/11/8 Herman Bruyninckx <Herman [dot] Bruyninckx [..] ...>
> On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, Peter Soetens wrote:
>
> > On Monday 08 November 2010 09:57:30 Herman Bruyninckx
> wrote:
> >> FYI
> >>
> >> <http://www.ros.org/wiki/orocos_controllers>
> >> To what extent are orocos developers involved in
> this? Should we?
> >
> > I have been silently tracking the mails on ros-users,
> being tempted to jump
> > in.
> >
> > The name is a bit ambiguous from a 'branding' point of
> view (who is
> > responsible for that code), but I'm still in a
> wait-and-see mode and I applaud
> > any attempt of someone trying to set one up that
> integrates nicely with ROS.
> > It's only by doing it that we can find out what works
> best...
>
> True. But the "branding" aspect should not be neglected. And I'm
> sure that
> the initiative under consideration here is indeed laudable, but it
> would
> have received a lot of help from this list _before_ it was released
> and
> published as a ROS package...
>
>  The name of my stacks could be a bit ambiguous beceose i am not OROCOS
> developer, but it well describes content of those stacks. I have discussed
> design of those stacks on ros and orocos mailing-list. These stacks have
> not been released, but are publicly available. I thought that
> prof-of-concept implementation whould be good starting point for discution
> on future of OROCOS-ROS integration.
>
> Herman
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>
>
>
>
>

--
K.U.Leuven, Mechanical Eng., Mechatronics & Robotics Research Group
<http://people.mech.kuleuven.be/~bruyninc> Tel: +32 16 328056
EURON Coordinator (European Robotics Research Network) <http://www.euron.org>
Open Realtime Control Services <http://www.orocos.org>
Associate Editor JOSER <http://www.joser.org>, IJRR <http://www.ijrr.org>

Do we know about these: orocos_controllers on ROS.org...?

Honestly, the philosophy of open source is that you are "giving away" your
source code and you allow people to use and modify it the way they want.

If you want to protect your brand, there are alternative software licenses
that would have done it.

Talking about branding now is just a matter of personal ego; I am not using
the word "ego" in a negative way.
People do open source software because they want recognition, they expect
people to be grateful and to be endorsed for their hard work...

But, still, the software license of Orocos does not oblige any user to care
about "branding" issues.

Davide

On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Herman Bruyninckx <
Herman [dot] Bruyninckx [..] ...> wrote:

> On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, Peter Soetens wrote:
>
> > On Monday 08 November 2010 09:57:30 Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
> >> FYI
> >>
> >> <http://www.ros.org/wiki/orocos_controllers>
> >> To what extent are orocos developers involved in this? Should we?
> >
> > I have been silently tracking the mails on ros-users, being tempted to
> jump
> > in.
> >
> > The name is a bit ambiguous from a 'branding' point of view (who is
> > responsible for that code), but I'm still in a wait-and-see mode and I
> applaud
> > any attempt of someone trying to set one up that integrates nicely with
> ROS.
> > It's only by doing it that we can find out what works best...
>
> True. But the "branding" aspect should not be neglected. And I'm sure that
> the initiative under consideration here is indeed laudable, but it would
> have received a lot of help from this list _before_ it was released and
> published as a ROS package...
>
> Herman
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>

Do we know about these: orocos_controllers on ROS.org...?

On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, Davide Faconti wrote:

> Honestly, the philosophy of open source is that you are "giving away" your source code and you allow people to use and modify it the way they want.
>
> If you want to protect your brand, there are alternative software licenses that would have done it.
>
> Talking about branding now is just a matter of personal ego; I am not using the word "ego" in a negative way.
> People do open source software because they want recognition, they expect people to be grateful and to be endorsed for their hard work...
>
> But, still, the software license of Orocos does not oblige any user to care about "branding" issues.

You're absolutely right, of course. But there is a big difference between
what you are _allowed_ to do on the one hand, and leveraging the open
source _community behaviour_. I am talking about missed opportunities if
one doesn't understand the long-term positive effect of the latter. Open
source is about _much_ more than the licenses :-)

> Davide

Herman

> On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Herman Bruyninckx <Herman [dot] Bruyninckx [..] ...<mailto:Herman [dot] Bruyninckx [..] ...>> wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, Peter Soetens wrote:
>
>> On Monday 08 November 2010 09:57:30 Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
>>> FYI
>>>
>>> <http://www.ros.org/wiki/orocos_controllers>
>>> To what extent are orocos developers involved in this? Should we?
>>
>> I have been silently tracking the mails on ros-users, being tempted to jump
>> in.
>>
>> The name is a bit ambiguous from a 'branding' point of view (who is
>> responsible for that code), but I'm still in a wait-and-see mode and I applaud
>> any attempt of someone trying to set one up that integrates nicely with ROS.
>> It's only by doing it that we can find out what works best...
>
> True. But the "branding" aspect should not be neglected. And I'm sure that
> the initiative under consideration here is indeed laudable, but it would
> have received a lot of help from this list _before_ it was released and
> published as a ROS package...
>
> Herman

Do we know about these: orocos_controllers on ROS.org...?

Hi,
I am author of orocos_controllers and orocos_tools stacks.
I am using them as part of my OROCOS-ROS controller for irp6 manipulators
(irp6_robot stack).
orocos_controllers is intended to be collection of orocos components thats
help implementing real-time robot controller in orocos for ros.
The implementation is rather proof-of-concept, so feedback and contribution
would be very welcome.

Pozdrawiam
Konrad Banachowicz

2010/11/8 Peter Soetens <peter [..] ...>

> On Monday 08 November 2010 09:57:30 Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
> > FYI
> >
> > <http://www.ros.org/wiki/orocos_controllers>
> > To what extent are orocos developers involved in this? Should we?
>
> I have been silently tracking the mails on ros-users, being tempted to jump
> in.
>
> The name is a bit ambiguous from a 'branding' point of view (who is
> responsible for that code), but I'm still in a wait-and-see mode and I
> applaud
> any attempt of someone trying to set one up that integrates nicely with
> ROS.
> It's only by doing it that we can find out what works best...
>
> Peter
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>

Do we know about these: orocos_controllers on ROS.org...?

On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, Konrad Banachowicz wrote:

> Hi,
> I am author of orocos_controllers and orocos_tools stacks.
> I am using them as part of my OROCOS-ROS controller for irp6 manipulators (irp6_robot stack).
> orocos_controllers is intended to be collection of orocos components thats help implementing real-time robot controller in orocos for ros.
> The implementation is rather proof-of-concept, so feedback and
> contribution would be very welcome.

Then the right policy would have been to first discuss these things on
_this_ mailing list :-)

I personally do not approve of people using the name "orocos" for ROS (or
other) packages if there has not been some form of approval from the Orocos
developers. Of course, this policy cannot (and should not) be enforced, I
know. But I also know that one project can suffer from _tremendous_ image
damage because someone uses it in an inappropriate way, without agreement
from the project developers. In the Orocos history, we have already had
this problem a couple of times:
- bad realtime support in hardware or OS
- CORBA problems
- toolchain problems

_The_ solution around that is easy, however: if we get a TradeMark for
using the name of Orocos :-) (But that costs several tens of thousands of
euros, for worldwide protection...)

> Pozdrawiam
> Konrad Banachowicz

Herman
>
> 2010/11/8 Peter Soetens <peter [..] ...<mailto:peter [..] ...>>
> On Monday 08 November 2010 09:57:30 Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
>> FYI
>>
>> <http://www.ros.org/wiki/orocos_controllers>
>> To what extent are orocos developers involved in this? Should we?
>
> I have been silently tracking the mails on ros-users, being tempted to jump
> in.
>
> The name is a bit ambiguous from a 'branding' point of view (who is
> responsible for that code), but I'm still in a wait-and-see mode and I applaud
> any attempt of someone trying to set one up that integrates nicely with ROS.
> It's only by doing it that we can find out what works best...
>
> Peter
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...<mailto:Orocos-Dev [..] ...>
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>
>