RTT Developer's Workshop

Hello everyone.

Peter, Herman and myself talked last week about organizing a developer's
workshop.

Ideally, it would be a one full week meeting. It would have two goals:

* the first goal is to get everybody together, and lay out /as a
project/ the future of the RTT and associated tools. I.e. have us talk
about what's missing, where we want to go, and how we can go there
/together/
* the second goal would be to *code*. I.e. benefit from these
discussions to progress on the code level, at least prototyping part of
the ideas that will pop up during the meeting

The focus of that meeting is the toolchain (RTT and tools) *not* the
application. I.e. don't come to get help to integrate your robot, but to
get help while you are adding the functionality that you need to
integrate your robot (I'm not sure I will be able to understand that
sentence myself in a week or so, but I hope you get the point ;-)).

To help organizing that, a few things:
* where: there are two choices. Either Leuven or Bremen. If money is
an issue, Bremen has a Youth Hostel that is quite nice. Send me an email
to give me your preference.
* my email address. If you want to come, drop me *in any case* a line
so that I have an idea of who is interested.
* a doodle page at http://doodle.com/p53xzp6qmqzpx8x7
Doodle does not support selecting weeks, so select the monday of the
weeks you are comfortable with. Obviously, it is possible to not come
the whole week if you cannot ;-).
* a wiki page where you can add the stuff you would like to discuss
and/or code.
http://orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop

I hope you will find that prospect as interesting as I do ;-)

RTT Developer's Workshop

About the agenda:

One topic I feel is actually important (if not "critical"), but less
related to the RTT directly is system integration. We all use the RTT to
build systems in different ways (I know I do since I don't see what
services are good for for instance ...), and I feel it would be
important to discuss how we do things.

In other words: to understand the many ways the RTT can be used to build
robots.

I guess monday would be the day for that. I feel that a four hour talk
about RTT 2.0 is ... well ... long, so maybe we could allocate some time
to talk about that.

What do you guys think ?

Sylvain

RTT Developer's Workshop

Arghhh... seems to be a good topic of discussion... but I will probably
miss it as I will leave Toulouse around 8am and come by car :'(

Charles.

Le mardi 06 juillet 2010 à 11:37 +0200, Sylvain Joyeux a écrit :
> About the agenda:
>
> One topic I feel is actually important (if not "critical"), but less
> related to the RTT directly is system integration. We all use the RTT to
> build systems in different ways (I know I do since I don't see what
> services are good for for instance ...), and I feel it would be
> important to discuss how we do things.
>
> In other words: to understand the many ways the RTT can be used to build
> robots.
>
> I guess monday would be the day for that. I feel that a four hour talk
> about RTT 2.0 is ... well ... long, so maybe we could allocate some time
> to talk about that.
>
> What do you guys think ?
>
> Sylvain

--
Orocos-Dev mailing list
Orocos-Dev [..] ...
http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev

RTT Developer's Workshop

On Jul 6, 2010, at 05:42 , Charles Lesire-Cabaniols wrote:

> Arghhh... seems to be a good topic of discussion... but I will probably
> miss it as I will leave Toulouse around 8am and come by car :'(
>
> Charles.
>
> Le mardi 06 juillet 2010 à 11:37 +0200, Sylvain Joyeux a écrit :
>> About the agenda:
>>
>> One topic I feel is actually important (if not "critical"), but less
>> related to the RTT directly is system integration. We all use the RTT to
>> build systems in different ways (I know I do since I don't see what
>> services are good for for instance ...), and I feel it would be
>> important to discuss how we do things.
>>
>> In other words: to understand the many ways the RTT can be used to build
>> robots.
>>
>> I guess monday would be the day for that. I feel that a four hour talk
>> about RTT 2.0 is ... well ... long, so maybe we could allocate some time
>> to talk about that.
>>
>> What do you guys think ?
>>
>> Sylvain

This was part of what I was hoping to get from the morning's introductions - how everyone else is doing it, is there anything I can learn from that, and how does that change the way we structure the project's future directions. I think that at least a couple of hours focused on this particular topic would be time well spent.

Stephen

RTT Developer's Workshop

On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 1:15 PM, S Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ...> wrote:
> On Jul 6, 2010, at 05:42 , Charles Lesire-Cabaniols wrote:
>
>> Arghhh... seems to be a good topic of discussion... but I will probably
>> miss it as I will leave Toulouse around 8am and come by car :'(
>>
>> Charles.
>>
>> Le mardi 06 juillet 2010 à 11:37 +0200, Sylvain Joyeux a écrit :
>>> About the agenda:
>>>
>>> One topic I feel is actually important (if not "critical"), but less
>>> related to the RTT directly is system integration. We all use the RTT to
>>> build systems in different ways (I know I do since I don't see what
>>> services are good for for instance ...), and I feel it would be
>>> important to discuss how we do things.
>>>
>>> In other words: to understand the many ways the RTT can be used to build
>>> robots.
>>>
>>> I guess monday would be the day for that. I feel that a four hour talk
>>> about RTT 2.0 is ... well ... long, so maybe we could allocate some time
>>> to talk about that.
>>>
>>> What do you guys think ?
>>>
>>> Sylvain
>
>
> This was part of what I was hoping to get from the morning's introductions - how everyone else is doing it, is there anything I can learn from that, and how does that change the way we structure the project's future directions. I think that at least a couple of hours focused on this particular topic would be time well spent.

+1 for Sylvain's and Stephen's remarks. I wasn't really planning on a
4 hours ex-cathedra about 2.0 :-)

Peter
--
Orocos-Dev mailing list
Orocos-Dev [..] ...
http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev

SUMMARY: RTT Developer's Workshop

If you need sponsorship, contact Peter at peter [..] ...

Agenda:

Add your ideas, and review other people's ideas, at

http://orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop

I'll do a compilation and propose an agenda mid-June (probably).

SUMMARY: RTT Developer's Workshop

On Apr 13, 2010, at 08:11 , Sylvain Joyeux wrote:

> Place: Barcelona (PAL offices)
> Date: 19th of July
>
> If you need sponsorship, contact Peter at peter [..] ...
>
> Agenda:
>
> Add your ideas, and review other people's ideas, at
>
> http://orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop
>
> I'll do a compilation and propose an agenda mid-June (probably).

10 weeks to go. Some of us need to buy tickets and hotels fairly soon.

1) Can someone please bound the days and times, so that we can figure out when to arrive leave (don't need a full agenda). Are we thinking of starting early-ish Monday morning and wrapping up mid-afternoon Friday?

2) Can someone please recommend a convenient, decent, nearby hotel.

Thanks
Stephen

SUMMARY: RTT Developer's Workshop

Hi,
as you already know the meeting will be in Barcelona in our office.
Don't worry about the accommodation, PAL will fix it.
Anyway we need asap the participants confirmation and fix the days of the
meeting.
Anyone will arrive the 18th and needs accommodation?

Francesco Ferro

Software Manager
Pal Robotics S.L. <http://www.pal-robotics.com>
C/ Pujades 77-79, 4-4
08005 Barcelona, Spain.
Skype: francesco.pal-robotics
Tel: +34.93.414.53.47
Fax: +34.93.209.11.09

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2010/5/8 S Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ...>

> On Apr 13, 2010, at 08:11 , Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
>
> > Place: Barcelona (PAL offices)
> > Date: 19th of July
> >
> > If you need sponsorship, contact Peter at peter [..] ...
> >
> > Agenda:
> >
> > Add your ideas, and review other people's ideas, at
> >
> > http://orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop
> >
> > I'll do a compilation and propose an agenda mid-June (probably).
>
> 10 weeks to go. Some of us need to buy tickets and hotels fairly soon.
>
> 1) Can someone please bound the days and times, so that we can figure out
> when to arrive leave (don't need a full agenda). Are we thinking of starting
> early-ish Monday morning and wrapping up mid-afternoon Friday?
>
> 2) Can someone please recommend a convenient, decent, nearby hotel.
>
> Thanks
> Stephen
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>

SUMMARY: RTT Developer's Workshop

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 15:46, Francesco Ferro <
francesco [dot] ferro [..] ...> wrote:

> Hi,
> as you already know the meeting will be in Barcelona in our office.
> Don't worry about the accommodation, PAL will fix it.
> Anyway we need asap the participants confirmation and fix the days of the
> meeting.
> Anyone will arrive the 18th and needs accommodation?
>

I will probably arrive sunday evening late and leave friday afternoon or
saturday morning . That's mainly because of flight schedules and my bad
experience of arriving by airplane on the starting day...

I believe the agenda would be from Mo 19/7, 14h until Fri 23/7, 14h to allow
people arriving in the morning / leaving on Friday. I'd like to visit the
Gaudi park with the whole team, so that's maybe something we can do in the
late afternoon on Wed.

I put an empty agenda frame on the wiki page, let's fill it up !

Could every participant check that his name is on
http://www.orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop and add his days
of attendance ? Also in case he/she's living in the suburbs of Barcelona :)

Cheers,
Peter

SUMMARY: RTT Developer's Workshop

The subjects of your workshop seem very interesting. I hope that a kind of
report will be available following your meeting :-)

2010/5/10 Peter Soetens <peter [..] ...>

> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 15:46, Francesco Ferro <
> francesco [dot] ferro [..] ...> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> as you already know the meeting will be in Barcelona in our office.
>> Don't worry about the accommodation, PAL will fix it.
>> Anyway we need asap the participants confirmation and fix the days of the
>> meeting.
>> Anyone will arrive the 18th and needs accommodation?
>>
>
> I will probably arrive sunday evening late and leave friday afternoon or
> saturday morning . That's mainly because of flight schedules and my bad
> experience of arriving by airplane on the starting day...
>
> I believe the agenda would be from Mo 19/7, 14h until Fri 23/7, 14h to
> allow people arriving in the morning / leaving on Friday. I'd like to visit
> the Gaudi park with the whole team, so that's maybe something we can do in
> the late afternoon on Wed.
>
> I put an empty agenda frame on the wiki page, let's fill it up !
>
> Could every participant check that his name is on
> http://www.orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop and add his
> days of attendance ? Also in case he/she's living in the suburbs of
> Barcelona :)
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
>
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>
>

SUMMARY: RTT Developer's Workshop

Philippe Hamelin wrote:
> The subjects of your workshop seem very interesting. I hope that a
> kind of report will be available following your meeting :-)
>
I (and/or others) will try to put daily updates on our discussions, and
definitely a whole-workshop summary

Sylvain

SUMMARY: RTT Developer's Workshop

Hi,

I will join you for the Dev Workshop, but I could not stay more than 3
days.

Charles.

On Sat, 08 May 2010 09:23:58 -0400, S Roderick <kiwi [dot] net [..] ...> wrote:
> On Apr 13, 2010, at 08:11 , Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
>
>> Place: Barcelona (PAL offices)
>> Date: 19th of July
>>
>> If you need sponsorship, contact Peter at peter [..] ...
>>
>> Agenda:
>>
>> Add your ideas, and review other people's ideas, at
>>
>> http://orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop
>>
>> I'll do a compilation and propose an agenda mid-June (probably).
>
> 10 weeks to go. Some of us need to buy tickets and hotels fairly soon.
>
> 1) Can someone please bound the days and times, so that we can figure out
> when to arrive leave (don't need a full agenda). Are we thinking of
> starting early-ish Monday morning and wrapping up mid-afternoon Friday?
>
> 2) Can someone please recommend a convenient, decent, nearby hotel.
>
> Thanks
> Stephen

SUMMARY: RTT Developer's Workshop

Hi everybody,

Probably you have a good view of what you are doing each other in Orocos
development as you discuss a lot, but I personnaly do not have this view.

I hope I will be able to join you for the developer's workshop (still
have to validate some administrative stuffs with my chiefs). In that
case, I think it could be a good idea to start the workshop by
presenting myself, i.e. the projects in which we use Orocos, and the
development we have planned around it. Such topics include already
scheduled topics, and others:
- use in supervision and planning,
- validation of Orocos components and architectures,
- the toolchain: I'm currently in contact with LAAS people -- Félix
Ingrand and Anthony Mallet for people who know them -- to have Genom
generate Orocos code.

It could be a good idea that each people present themself, their lab and
Orocos related projects and developments to start the workshop, doesn't it?

Charles.

Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
> Place: Barcelona (PAL offices)
> Date: 19th of July
>
> If you need sponsorship, contact Peter at peter [..] ...
>
> Agenda:
>
> Add your ideas, and review other people's ideas, at
>
> http://orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop
>
> I'll do a compilation and propose an agenda mid-June (probably).
>
>

SUMMARY: RTT Developer's Workshop

Hi Charles,

On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 14:39, Charles Lesire-Cabaniols
<Charles [dot] Lesire [..] ...> wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> Probably you have a good view of what you are doing each other in Orocos
> development as you discuss a lot, but I personnaly do not have this view.
>
> I hope I will be able to join you for the developer's workshop (still
> have to validate some administrative stuffs with my chiefs).

It would be great to have you on board !

> In that
> case, I think it could be a good idea to start the workshop by
> presenting myself, i.e. the projects in which we use Orocos, and the
> development we have planned around it. Such topics include already
> scheduled topics, and others:
> - use in supervision and planning,
> - validation of Orocos components and architectures,
> - the toolchain: I'm currently in contact with LAAS people -- Félix
> Ingrand and Anthony Mallet for people who know them -- to have Genom
> generate Orocos code.
>
> It could be a good idea that each people present themself, their lab and
> Orocos related projects and developments to start the workshop, doesn't it?

I would limit this to half a day, just to get to know each other. So
you'll have less than 1h to introduce yourself. Seems ok to me, we'll
have plenty of time to talk about details during the rest of the week.

Peter

SUMMARY: RTT Developer's Workshop

On Apr 13, 2010, at 08:39 , Charles Lesire-Cabaniols wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> Probably you have a good view of what you are doing each other in Orocos
> development as you discuss a lot, but I personnaly do not have this view.
>
> I hope I will be able to join you for the developer's workshop (still
> have to validate some administrative stuffs with my chiefs). In that
> case, I think it could be a good idea to start the workshop by
> presenting myself, i.e. the projects in which we use Orocos, and the
> development we have planned around it. Such topics include already
> scheduled topics, and others:
> - use in supervision and planning,
> - validation of Orocos components and architectures,
> - the toolchain: I'm currently in contact with LAAS people -- Félix
> Ingrand and Anthony Mallet for people who know them -- to have Genom
> generate Orocos code.
>
> It could be a good idea that each people present themself, their lab and
> Orocos related projects and developments to start the workshop, doesn't it?

I agree. The exact same thought had crossed my mind. I personally have no idea how, where, and why, others are using Orocos. This would help to frame discussions I think. Having said that, limiting these introduction presentations to just a couple (or a few) hours on the first day, would help to maximize time to actually get things done.

Maybe add this to the Wiki page, and it can be discussed by all involved when Sylvain proposes an agenda in a few weeks?

Stephen

RTT Developer's Workshop PLACE: Barcelona ?

There has been only three votes for now, and the consensus is on Barcelona.

I think we should decide soon, so that the flight prices don't skyrocket
for Stephen. So, unless someone speaks against it before the end of the
week, I guess we can decide on going towards the sun (it means something
here ;-)).

RTT Developer's Workshop PLACE: Barcelona ?

When all the developers agree to prepare the meeting in Barcelona, we'll be
glad to prepare the event in the best way.
;-)

Francesco Ferro

Software Manager
Pal Robotics S.L. <http://www.pal-robotics.com>
C/ Pujades 77-79, 4-4
08005 Barcelona, Spain.
Skype: francesco.pal-robotics
Tel: +34.93.414.53.47
Fax: +34.93.209.11.09

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Este mensaje y sus documentos adjuntos, pueden contener información
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2010/3/30 Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...>

> There has been only three votes for now, and the consensus is on Barcelona.
>
> I think we should decide soon, so that the flight prices don't skyrocket
> for Stephen. So, unless someone speaks against it before the end of the
> week, I guess we can decide on going towards the sun (it means something
> here ;-)).
>
> --
> Sylvain Joyeux (Dr. Ing.)
> Researcher - Space and Security Robotics
> DFKI Robotics Innovation Center
> Bremen, Robert-Hooke-Straße 5, 28359 Bremen, Germany
>
> Phone: +49 421 218-64136
> Fax: +49 421 218-64150
> Email: sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...
>
> Weitere Informationen: http://www.dfki.de
>
>
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>

RTT Developer's Workshop PLACE: Barcelona ?

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Francesco Ferro
<francesco [dot] ferro [..] ...> wrote:
> When all the developers agree to prepare the meeting in Barcelona, we'll be glad to prepare the event in the best way.
> ;-)

So Barcelona it is. We'll keep on using the wiki for all information,
the agenda, who's paying for beer & piza's etc. I'd also like to
figure out how we can get this event sponsored. Please mail me in
person if you would like to attend and get sponsorship for your
traveling and stay and I'll try to coordinate that everyone can
attend.

Peter

RTT Developer's Workshop DATE: 19th of July

So, we have everyone available the 19th of July, so I guess it will be
the date ;-)

On the place, we still have three options
- Leuven
- Bremen
- Barcelona (if it is possible for the PAL guys at this date).

I had no mail about what you guys prefer ... So tell me !

Sylvain

RTT Developer's Workshop DATE: 19th of July

Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
> So, we have everyone available the 19th of July, so I guess it will be
> the date ;-)
>
> On the place, we still have three options
> - Leuven
> - Bremen
> - Barcelona (if it is possible for the PAL guys at this date).
>
> I had no mail about what you guys prefer ... So tell me !
>
> Sylvain
>
I prefer Barcelona, Bremen, Leuven

RTT Developer's Workshop DATE: 19th of July

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:24, Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...> wrote:
> So, we have everyone available the 19th of July, so I guess it will be
> the date ;-)
>
> On the place, we still have three options
>  - Leuven
>  - Bremen
>  - Barcelona (if it is possible for the PAL guys at this date).
>
> I had no mail about what you guys prefer ... So tell me !

I prefer Barcelona first, then Leuven, then Bremen.

Peter

RTT Developer's Workshop DATE: 19th of July

On Mar 22, 2010, at 05:24 , Sylvain Joyeux wrote:

> So, we have everyone available the 19th of July, so I guess it will be
> the date ;-)
>
> On the place, we still have three options
> - Leuven
> - Bremen
> - Barcelona (if it is possible for the PAL guys at this date).
>
> I had no mail about what you guys prefer ... So tell me !
>
> Sylvain

I prefer Leuven first, then Barcelona second, and Bremen last (only as flights from the US are more expensive and have more connections).
Stephen

RTT Developer's Workshop DATE: 19th of July

here at PAL we don't have any problem with this date.

By the way, how many people are expect to come?

Davide

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...>wrote:

> So, we have everyone available the 19th of July, so I guess it will be
> the date ;-)
>
> On the place, we still have three options
> - Leuven
> - Bremen
> - Barcelona (if it is possible for the PAL guys at this date).
>
> I had no mail about what you guys prefer ... So tell me !
>
> Sylvain
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>

RTT Developer's Workshop DATE: 19th of July

Davide Faconti wrote:
> here at PAL we don't have any problem with this date.
>
> By the way, how many people are expect to come?
Only 5 that I know of (i.e. are on the doodle). One of my colleague
might come if he got into the toolchain development by then, so that
would make 6.

RTT Developer's Workshop

Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
> * my email address. If you want to come, drop me *in any case* a line
> so that I have an idea of who is interested.
> * a doodle page at http://doodle.com/p53xzp6qmqzpx8x
The doodle is still missing at least Peter ...

If you can't fill it, but intend to participate, drop me a line so that
I know who's missing and who's not.

RTT Developer's Workshop

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:05, Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...> wrote:
> Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
>>   * my email address. If you want to come, drop me *in any case* a line
>> so that I have an idea of who is interested.
>>   * a doodle page at http://doodle.com/p53xzp6qmqzpx8x
> The doodle is still missing at least Peter ...
>
> If you can't fill it, but intend to participate, drop me a line so that
> I know who's missing and who's not.

I was in a fuzzy state...

The two last weeks of june and first of july are missing. Why ?

Peter

RTT Developer's Workshop

Peter Soetens wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:05, Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...> wrote:
>
>> Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
>>
>>> * my email address. If you want to come, drop me *in any case* a line
>>> so that I have an idea of who is interested.
>>> * a doodle page at http://doodle.com/p53xzp6qmqzpx8x
>>>
>> The doodle is still missing at least Peter ...
>>
>> If you can't fill it, but intend to participate, drop me a line so that
>> I know who's missing and who's not.
>>
>
> I was in a fuzzy state...
>
> The two last weeks of june and first of july are missing. Why ?
>
>
Because I'm a selfish man and I'm going to Sauc-E 2010 from 28/6 to 3/7
(on an AUV that is running on RTT + Roby ;-)). I obviously will need to
help preparing ...

RTT Developer's Workshop

On Mon, Mar 08, 2010 at 11:56:30AM +0100, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
> Hello everyone.
>
> Peter, Herman and myself talked last week about organizing a developer's
> workshop.
>
> Ideally, it would be a one full week meeting. It would have two goals:
>
> * the first goal is to get everybody together, and lay out /as a
> project/ the future of the RTT and associated tools. I.e. have us talk
> about what's missing, where we want to go, and how we can go there
> /together/
> * the second goal would be to *code*. I.e. benefit from these
> discussions to progress on the code level, at least prototyping part of
> the ideas that will pop up during the meeting
>
> The focus of that meeting is the toolchain (RTT and tools) *not* the
> application. I.e. don't come to get help to integrate your robot, but to
> get help while you are adding the functionality that you need to
> integrate your robot (I'm not sure I will be able to understand that
> sentence myself in a week or so, but I hope you get the point ;-)).
>
> To help organizing that, a few things:
> * where: there are two choices. Either Leuven or Bremen. If money is
> an issue, Bremen has a Youth Hostel that is quite nice. Send me an email
> to give me your preference.
> * my email address. If you want to come, drop me *in any case* a line
> so that I have an idea of who is interested.
> * a doodle page at http://doodle.com/p53xzp6qmqzpx8x7
> Doodle does not support selecting weeks, so select the monday of the
> weeks you are comfortable with. Obviously, it is possible to not come
> the whole week if you cannot ;-).
> * a wiki page where you can add the stuff you would like to discuss
> and/or code.
> http://orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop
>
> I hope you will find that prospect as interesting as I do ;-)

A developer meeting would be great! But for me the dates are too
early.

Best regards
Markus

RTT Developer's Workshop

Markus Klotzbuecher wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 08, 2010 at 11:56:30AM +0100, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone.
>>
>> Peter, Herman and myself talked last week about organizing a developer's
>> workshop.
>>
>> Ideally, it would be a one full week meeting. It would have two goals:
>>
>> * the first goal is to get everybody together, and lay out /as a
>> project/ the future of the RTT and associated tools. I.e. have us talk
>> about what's missing, where we want to go, and how we can go there
>> /together/
>> * the second goal would be to *code*. I.e. benefit from these
>> discussions to progress on the code level, at least prototyping part of
>> the ideas that will pop up during the meeting
>>
>> The focus of that meeting is the toolchain (RTT and tools) *not* the
>> application. I.e. don't come to get help to integrate your robot, but to
>> get help while you are adding the functionality that you need to
>> integrate your robot (I'm not sure I will be able to understand that
>> sentence myself in a week or so, but I hope you get the point ;-)).
>>
>> To help organizing that, a few things:
>> * where: there are two choices. Either Leuven or Bremen. If money is
>> an issue, Bremen has a Youth Hostel that is quite nice. Send me an email
>> to give me your preference.
>> * my email address. If you want to come, drop me *in any case* a line
>> so that I have an idea of who is interested.
>> * a doodle page at http://doodle.com/p53xzp6qmqzpx8x7
>> Doodle does not support selecting weeks, so select the monday of the
>> weeks you are comfortable with. Obviously, it is possible to not come
>> the whole week if you cannot ;-).
>> * a wiki page where you can add the stuff you would like to discuss
>> and/or code.
>> http://orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop
>>
>> I hope you will find that prospect as interesting as I do ;-)
>>
>
> A developer meeting would be great! But for me the dates are too
> early.
>
I extended it towards July. During the discussion with Peter, we both
felt that an early meeting would be nice.

Moreover, on a personal level, I'm going to invest quite a bit of time
in the toolchain in the next three months, especially for multi-robot.
Also I'm going to leave DFKI, probably at the end of summer, so it would
also have been better for me if I had time to get "in line" with what we
discuss in the meeting before I leave.

Well ... Let's doodle decide ! ;-)

Sylvain

RTT Developer's Workshop

On Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 10:21:30AM +0100, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
> Markus Klotzbuecher wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 08, 2010 at 11:56:30AM +0100, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
> >
> >> Hello everyone.
> >>
> >> Peter, Herman and myself talked last week about organizing a developer's
> >> workshop.
> >>
> >> Ideally, it would be a one full week meeting. It would have two goals:
> >>
> >> * the first goal is to get everybody together, and lay out /as a
> >> project/ the future of the RTT and associated tools. I.e. have us talk
> >> about what's missing, where we want to go, and how we can go there
> >> /together/
> >> * the second goal would be to *code*. I.e. benefit from these
> >> discussions to progress on the code level, at least prototyping part of
> >> the ideas that will pop up during the meeting
> >>
> >> The focus of that meeting is the toolchain (RTT and tools) *not* the
> >> application. I.e. don't come to get help to integrate your robot, but to
> >> get help while you are adding the functionality that you need to
> >> integrate your robot (I'm not sure I will be able to understand that
> >> sentence myself in a week or so, but I hope you get the point ;-)).
> >>
> >> To help organizing that, a few things:
> >> * where: there are two choices. Either Leuven or Bremen. If money is
> >> an issue, Bremen has a Youth Hostel that is quite nice. Send me an email
> >> to give me your preference.
> >> * my email address. If you want to come, drop me *in any case* a line
> >> so that I have an idea of who is interested.
> >> * a doodle page at http://doodle.com/p53xzp6qmqzpx8x7
> >> Doodle does not support selecting weeks, so select the monday of the
> >> weeks you are comfortable with. Obviously, it is possible to not come
> >> the whole week if you cannot ;-).
> >> * a wiki page where you can add the stuff you would like to discuss
> >> and/or code.
> >> http://orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop
> >>
> >> I hope you will find that prospect as interesting as I do ;-)
> >>
> >
> > A developer meeting would be great! But for me the dates are too
> > early.
> >
> I extended it towards July. During the discussion with Peter, we both
> felt that an early meeting would be nice.

Thanks, in general I agree, just this time I'm busy.

> Moreover, on a personal level, I'm going to invest quite a bit of time
> in the toolchain in the next three months, especially for multi-robot.
> Also I'm going to leave DFKI, probably at the end of summer, so it would
> also have been better for me if I had time to get "in line" with what we
> discuss in the meeting before I leave.

I understand.

> Well ... Let's doodle decide ! ;-)

Fine!

Best regards
Markus

RTT Developer's Workshop

About the location of the workshop we propose Barcelona like third option.
Since PAL Robotics is sponsoring Orocos 2.0 we think make sense to host this
event.
Our disponibility is from the 15th of June.

Francesco Ferro
Software Manager
Pal Robotics S.L. <http://www.pal-robotics.com/>
C/ Pujades 77-79, 4-4
08005 Barcelona, Spain.
Skype: francesco.pal-robotics
Tel: +34.93.414.53.47
Fax: +34.93.209.11.09

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2010/3/9 Markus Klotzbuecher <markus [dot] klotzbuecher [..] ...>

> On Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 10:21:30AM +0100, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
> > Markus Klotzbuecher wrote:
> > > On Mon, Mar 08, 2010 at 11:56:30AM +0100, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hello everyone.
> > >>
> > >> Peter, Herman and myself talked last week about organizing a
> developer's
> > >> workshop.
> > >>
> > >> Ideally, it would be a one full week meeting. It would have two goals:
> > >>
> > >> * the first goal is to get everybody together, and lay out /as a
> > >> project/ the future of the RTT and associated tools. I.e. have us talk
> > >> about what's missing, where we want to go, and how we can go there
> > >> /together/
> > >> * the second goal would be to *code*. I.e. benefit from these
> > >> discussions to progress on the code level, at least prototyping part
> of
> > >> the ideas that will pop up during the meeting
> > >>
> > >> The focus of that meeting is the toolchain (RTT and tools) *not* the
> > >> application. I.e. don't come to get help to integrate your robot, but
> to
> > >> get help while you are adding the functionality that you need to
> > >> integrate your robot (I'm not sure I will be able to understand that
> > >> sentence myself in a week or so, but I hope you get the point ;-)).
> > >>
> > >> To help organizing that, a few things:
> > >> * where: there are two choices. Either Leuven or Bremen. If money is
> > >> an issue, Bremen has a Youth Hostel that is quite nice. Send me an
> email
> > >> to give me your preference.
> > >> * my email address. If you want to come, drop me *in any case* a
> line
> > >> so that I have an idea of who is interested.
> > >> * a doodle page at http://doodle.com/p53xzp6qmqzpx8x7
> > >> Doodle does not support selecting weeks, so select the monday of
> the
> > >> weeks you are comfortable with. Obviously, it is possible to not come
> > >> the whole week if you cannot ;-).
> > >> * a wiki page where you can add the stuff you would like to discuss
> > >> and/or code.
> > >> http://orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop
> > >>
> > >> I hope you will find that prospect as interesting as I do ;-)
> > >>
> > >
> > > A developer meeting would be great! But for me the dates are too
> > > early.
> > >
> > I extended it towards July. During the discussion with Peter, we both
> > felt that an early meeting would be nice.
>
> Thanks, in general I agree, just this time I'm busy.
>
> > Moreover, on a personal level, I'm going to invest quite a bit of time
> > in the toolchain in the next three months, especially for multi-robot.
> > Also I'm going to leave DFKI, probably at the end of summer, so it would
> > also have been better for me if I had time to get "in line" with what we
> > discuss in the meeting before I leave.
>
> I understand.
>
> > Well ... Let's doodle decide ! ;-)
>
> Fine!
>
> Best regards
> Markus
>
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>

RTT Developer's Workshop

Francesco Ferro wrote:
> About the location of the workshop we propose Barcelona like third option.
> Since PAL Robotics is sponsoring Orocos 2.0 we think make sense to
> host this event.
> Our disponibility is from the 15th of June.
Thanks for the offer, this is greatly appreciated.

I'd very much like to go to Barcelona and visit PAL

RTT Developer's Workshop

Hello everyone,

Speaking of meeting, I think last year there was a user meeting (EURON
2009), which was a little less technical but more application-oriented. Since
our organization now uses Orocos in several of his projects, I would like to
eventually meet the Orocos community to discuss about future ideas and on
their specific actual implementations. I know it's too late for EURON 2010
since its being held this week. However, are there discussions about a user
meeting in the near future? It would be a good opportunity for us to talk
about our experience of Orocos and talk about the problems we encountered.

Philippe

2010/3/8 Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...>

> Hello everyone.
>
> Peter, Herman and myself talked last week about organizing a developer's
> workshop.
>
> Ideally, it would be a one full week meeting. It would have two goals:
>
> * the first goal is to get everybody together, and lay out /as a
> project/ the future of the RTT and associated tools. I.e. have us talk
> about what's missing, where we want to go, and how we can go there
> /together/
> * the second goal would be to *code*. I.e. benefit from these
> discussions to progress on the code level, at least prototyping part of
> the ideas that will pop up during the meeting
>
> The focus of that meeting is the toolchain (RTT and tools) *not* the
> application. I.e. don't come to get help to integrate your robot, but to
> get help while you are adding the functionality that you need to
> integrate your robot (I'm not sure I will be able to understand that
> sentence myself in a week or so, but I hope you get the point ;-)).
>
> To help organizing that, a few things:
> * where: there are two choices. Either Leuven or Bremen. If money is
> an issue, Bremen has a Youth Hostel that is quite nice. Send me an email
> to give me your preference.
> * my email address. If you want to come, drop me *in any case* a line
> so that I have an idea of who is interested.
> * a doodle page at http://doodle.com/p53xzp6qmqzpx8x7
> Doodle does not support selecting weeks, so select the monday of the
> weeks you are comfortable with. Obviously, it is possible to not come
> the whole week if you cannot ;-).
> * a wiki page where you can add the stuff you would like to discuss
> and/or code.
> http://orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop
>
> I hope you will find that prospect as interesting as I do ;-)
>
> --
> Sylvain Joyeux (Dr. Ing.)
> Researcher - Space and Security Robotics
> DFKI Robotics Innovation Center
> Bremen, Robert-Hooke-Straße 5, 28359 Bremen, Germany
>
> Phone: +49 421 218-64136
> Fax: +49 421 218-64150
> Email: sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...
>
> Weitere Informationen: http://www.dfki.de
>
>
>
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>

RTT Developer's Workshop

On Mon, 8 Mar 2010, Philippe Hamelin wrote:

> Speaking of meeting, I think last year there was a user meeting (EURON 2009), which was a
> little less technical but more application-oriented. Since our organization now uses
> Orocos in several of his projects, I would like to eventually meet the Orocos community to
> discuss about future ideas and on their specific actual implementations. I know it's too
> late for EURON 2010 since its being held this week. However, are there discussions about a
> user meeting in the near future? It would be a good opportunity for us to talk about our
> experience of Orocos and talk about the problems we encountered.

Personally, I would suggest to couple the user and developers meetings,
because I expect more reactions like this one from Philippe... Maybe both
can have a common track, while the "coding sessions" of the developers
meeting are replaced by "design sessions" for the users meeting...

Herman
>
> Philippe
>
> 2010/3/8 Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...>
> Hello everyone.
>
> Peter, Herman and myself talked last week about organizing a developer's
> workshop.
>
> Ideally, it would be a one full week meeting. It would have two goals:
>
>  * the first goal is to get everybody together, and lay out /as a
> project/ the future of the RTT and associated tools. I.e. have us talk
> about what's missing, where we want to go, and how we can go there
> /together/
>  * the second goal would be to *code*. I.e. benefit from these
> discussions to progress on the code level, at least prototyping part of
> the ideas that will pop up during the meeting
>
> The focus of that meeting is the toolchain (RTT and tools) *not* the
> application. I.e. don't come to get help to integrate your robot, but to
> get help while you are adding the functionality that you need to
> integrate your robot (I'm not sure I will be able to understand that
> sentence myself in a week or so, but I hope you get the point ;-)).
>
> To help organizing that, a few things:
>  * where: there are two choices. Either Leuven or Bremen. If money is
> an issue, Bremen has a Youth Hostel that is quite nice. Send me an email
> to give me your preference.
>  * my email address. If you want to come, drop me *in any case* a line
> so that I have an idea of who is interested.
>  * a doodle page at http://doodle.com/p53xzp6qmqzpx8x7
>   Doodle does not support selecting weeks, so select the monday of the
> weeks you are comfortable with. Obviously, it is possible to not come
> the whole week if you cannot ;-).
>  * a wiki page where you can add the stuff you would like to discuss
> and/or code.
>     http://orocos.org/wiki/rtt/1st-rtt-developers-workshop
>
> I hope you will find that prospect as interesting as I do ;-)
>
> --
> Sylvain Joyeux (Dr. Ing.)
> Researcher - Space and Security Robotics
> DFKI Robotics Innovation Center
> Bremen, Robert-Hooke-Straße 5, 28359 Bremen, Germany
>
> Phone:   +49 421 218-64136
> Fax:     +49 421 218-64150
> Email:   sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...
>
> Weitere Informationen: http://www.dfki.de
>
>
>
> --
> Orocos-Dev mailing list
> Orocos-Dev [..] ...
> http://lists.mech.kuleuven.be/mailman/listinfo/orocos-dev
>
>
>
>

--
K.U.Leuven, Mechanical Eng., Mechatronics & Robotics Research Group
<http://people.mech.kuleuven.be/~bruyninc> Tel: +32 16 328056
EURON Coordinator (European Robotics Research Network) <http://www.euron.org>
Open Realtime Control Services <http://www.orocos.org>
Associate Editor JOSER <http://www.joser.org>, IJRR <http://www.ijrr.org>

RTT Developer's Workshop

Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Mar 2010, Philippe Hamelin wrote:
>> Speaking of meeting, I think last year there was a user meeting
>> (EURON 2009), which was a
>> little less technical but more application-oriented. Since our
>> organization now uses
>> Orocos in several of his projects, I would like to eventually meet
>> the Orocos community to
>> discuss about future ideas and on their specific actual
>> implementations. I know it's too
>> late for EURON 2010 since its being held this week. However, are
>> there discussions about a
>> user meeting in the near future? It would be a good opportunity for
>> us to talk about our
>> experience of Orocos and talk about the problems we encountered.
> Personally, I would suggest to couple the user and developers meetings,
> because I expect more reactions like this one from Philippe... Maybe both
> can have a common track, while the "coding sessions" of the developers
> meeting are replaced by "design sessions" for the users meeting...
I don't like that. I really think that instead of having a huge meeting,
the developper community should meet "with itself". I do value the input
from our users, but I really don't think that we would have productive
discussions if 15 people are in the room.

There is basically no "joint development" right now, and I think it is
really needed if we want to go on with RTT.

I would rather have a separate meeting for users, later on.

RTT Developer's Workshop

On Mon, 8 Mar 2010, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:

> Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Mar 2010, Philippe Hamelin wrote:
>>> Speaking of meeting, I think last year there was a user meeting
>>> (EURON 2009), which was a
>>> little less technical but more application-oriented. Since our
>>> organization now uses
>>> Orocos in several of his projects, I would like to eventually meet
>>> the Orocos community to
>>> discuss about future ideas and on their specific actual
>>> implementations. I know it's too
>>> late for EURON 2010 since its being held this week. However, are
>>> there discussions about a
>>> user meeting in the near future? It would be a good opportunity for
>>> us to talk about our
>>> experience of Orocos and talk about the problems we encountered.
>> Personally, I would suggest to couple the user and developers meetings,
>> because I expect more reactions like this one from Philippe... Maybe both
>> can have a common track, while the "coding sessions" of the developers
>> meeting are replaced by "design sessions" for the users meeting...
> I don't like that. I really think that instead of having a huge meeting,
> the developper community should meet "with itself". I do value the input
> from our users, but I really don't think that we would have productive
> discussions if 15 people are in the room.
>
> There is basically no "joint development" right now, and I think it is
> really needed if we want to go on with RTT.
>
> I would rather have a separate meeting for users, later on.
>

Makes sense to me! I withdraw my suggestion to have user and developer
meetings at the same event.

Herman

RTT Developer's Workshop

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...> wrote:
> Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Mar 2010, Philippe Hamelin wrote:
>>> Speaking of meeting, I think last year there was a user meeting
>>> (EURON 2009), which was a
>>> little less technical but more application-oriented. Since our
>>> organization now uses
>>> Orocos in several of his projects, I would like to eventually meet
>>> the Orocos community to
>>> discuss about future ideas and on their specific actual
>>> implementations. I know it's too
>>> late for EURON 2010 since its being held this week. However, are
>>> there discussions about a
>>> user meeting in the near future? It would be a good opportunity for
>>> us to talk about our
>>> experience of Orocos and talk about the problems we encountered.
>> Personally, I would suggest to couple the user and developers meetings,
>> because I expect more reactions like this one from Philippe... Maybe both
>> can have a common track, while the "coding sessions" of the developers
>> meeting are replaced by "design sessions" for the users meeting...
> I don't like that. I really think that instead of having a huge meeting,
> the developper community should meet "with itself". I do value the input
> from our users, but I really don't think that we would have productive
> discussions if 15 people are in the room.
>
> There is basically no "joint development" right now, and I think it is
> really needed if we want to go on with RTT.
>
> I would rather have a separate meeting for users, later on.

++++++

Collecting user requirements _first_ seems more logical too me?

Klaas

RTT Developer's Workshop

On Mar 8, 2010, at 10:29 , Klaas Gadeyne wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...> wrote:
>> Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
>>> On Mon, 8 Mar 2010, Philippe Hamelin wrote:
>>>> Speaking of meeting, I think last year there was a user meeting
>>>> (EURON 2009), which was a
>>>> little less technical but more application-oriented. Since our
>>>> organization now uses
>>>> Orocos in several of his projects, I would like to eventually meet
>>>> the Orocos community to
>>>> discuss about future ideas and on their specific actual
>>>> implementations. I know it's too
>>>> late for EURON 2010 since its being held this week. However, are
>>>> there discussions about a
>>>> user meeting in the near future? It would be a good opportunity for
>>>> us to talk about our
>>>> experience of Orocos and talk about the problems we encountered.
>>> Personally, I would suggest to couple the user and developers meetings,
>>> because I expect more reactions like this one from Philippe... Maybe both
>>> can have a common track, while the "coding sessions" of the developers
>>> meeting are replaced by "design sessions" for the users meeting...
>> I don't like that. I really think that instead of having a huge meeting,
>> the developper community should meet "with itself". I do value the input
>> from our users, but I really don't think that we would have productive
>> discussions if 15 people are in the room.
>>
>> There is basically no "joint development" right now, and I think it is
>> really needed if we want to go on with RTT.
>>
>> I would rather have a separate meeting for users, later on.
>
> ++++++
>
> Collecting user requirements _first_ seems more logical too me?
>
> Klaas

+1, so I am curious why Sylvain wanted it afterwards?
Stephen

RTT Developer's Workshop

S Roderick wrote:
> On Mar 8, 2010, at 10:29 , Klaas Gadeyne wrote:
>
>
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...> wrote:
>>
>>> Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 8 Mar 2010, Philippe Hamelin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of meeting, I think last year there was a user meeting
>>>>> (EURON 2009), which was a
>>>>> little less technical but more application-oriented. Since our
>>>>> organization now uses
>>>>> Orocos in several of his projects, I would like to eventually meet
>>>>> the Orocos community to
>>>>> discuss about future ideas and on their specific actual
>>>>> implementations. I know it's too
>>>>> late for EURON 2010 since its being held this week. However, are
>>>>> there discussions about a
>>>>> user meeting in the near future? It would be a good opportunity for
>>>>> us to talk about our
>>>>> experience of Orocos and talk about the problems we encountered.
>>>>>
>>>> Personally, I would suggest to couple the user and developers meetings,
>>>> because I expect more reactions like this one from Philippe... Maybe both
>>>> can have a common track, while the "coding sessions" of the developers
>>>> meeting are replaced by "design sessions" for the users meeting...
>>>>
>>> I don't like that. I really think that instead of having a huge meeting,
>>> the developper community should meet "with itself". I do value the input
>>> from our users, but I really don't think that we would have productive
>>> discussions if 15 people are in the room.
>>>
>>> There is basically no "joint development" right now, and I think it is
>>> really needed if we want to go on with RTT.
>>>
>>> I would rather have a separate meeting for users, later on.
>>>
>> ++++++
>>
>> Collecting user requirements _first_ seems more logical too me?
>>
>> Klaas
>>
>
> +1, so I am curious why Sylvain wanted it afterwards?
>
Disclaimer: regardless of my point of view (that follows), I'll
obviously follow if the group decides to do a joint meeting
users/developers.

Now, here is my point of view:
* I'm "my" own user. Meaning: there are currently 5 different projects
(meaning 5 different robots, applications and 12+ people) in my lab that
use the RTT, orogen and the rest of the toolchain I developped, or are
going to use in the next months. And give feedback. NB: I mean this
point as "I'm not developping in my ivory tower", not as "I don't care
about the other users". I really do want to fullfill the other user's
needs as well ;-). I just believe that, all together, we have a good
enough idea of what the user requirements are.
* I think that the RTT, as an open-source software project, needs to
move forward *now* (well, actually, a year or so ago), and I think that
most of us already have a clear picture of where we want to go
development-wise in the next months (at least I know I do). Said a bit
more harshly, this is not the time for gathering requirements anymore,
but to make things happen. And then adjust when needed.
* I think that, to move forward, we need an efficient meeting, and I'm
afraid that it won't happen if we the meeting becomes big.

Now, again, if the consensus is to do a users + developers meeting, then
I'll be happy to help organizing it ;-)

RTT Developer's Workshop

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 17:00, Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...> wrote:
> S Roderick wrote:
>> On Mar 8, 2010, at 10:29 , Klaas Gadeyne wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Sylvain Joyeux <sylvain [dot] joyeux [..] ...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Herman Bruyninckx wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 8 Mar 2010, Philippe Hamelin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaking of meeting, I think last year there was a user meeting
>>>>>> (EURON 2009), which was a
>>>>>> little less technical but more application-oriented. Since our
>>>>>> organization now uses
>>>>>> Orocos in several of his projects, I would like to eventually meet
>>>>>> the Orocos community to
>>>>>> discuss about future ideas and on their specific actual
>>>>>> implementations. I know it's too
>>>>>> late for EURON 2010 since its being held this week. However, are
>>>>>> there discussions about a
>>>>>> user meeting in the near future? It would be a good opportunity for
>>>>>> us to talk about our
>>>>>> experience of Orocos and talk about the problems we encountered.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I would suggest to couple the user and developers meetings,
>>>>> because I expect more reactions like this one from Philippe... Maybe both
>>>>> can have a common track, while the "coding sessions" of the developers
>>>>> meeting are replaced by "design sessions" for the users meeting...
>>>>>
>>>> I don't like that. I really think that instead of having a huge meeting,
>>>> the developper community should meet "with itself". I do value the input
>>>> from our users, but I really don't think that we would have productive
>>>> discussions if 15 people are in the room.
>>>>
>>>> There is basically no "joint development" right now, and I think it is
>>>> really needed if we want to go on with RTT.
>>>>
>>>> I would rather have a separate meeting for users, later on.
>>>>
>>>             ++++++
>>>
>>> Collecting user requirements _first_ seems more logical too me?
>>>
>>> Klaas
>>>
>>
>> +1, so I am curious why Sylvain wanted it afterwards?
>>
> Disclaimer: regardless of my point of view (that follows), I'll
> obviously follow if the group decides to do a joint meeting
> users/developers.
>
> Now, here is my point of view:
>  * I'm "my" own user. Meaning: there are currently 5 different projects
> (meaning 5 different robots, applications and 12+ people) in my lab that
> use the RTT, orogen and the rest of the toolchain I developped, or are
> going to use in the next months. And give feedback. NB: I mean this
> point as "I'm not developping in my ivory tower", not as "I don't care
> about the other users". I really do want to fullfill the other user's
> needs as well ;-). I just believe that, all together, we have a good
> enough idea of what the user requirements are.
>  * I think that the RTT, as an open-source software project, needs to
> move forward *now* (well, actually, a year or so ago), and I think that
> most of us already have a clear picture of where we want to go
> development-wise in the next months (at least I know I do). Said a bit
> more harshly, this is not the time for gathering requirements anymore,
> but to make things happen. And then adjust when needed.
>  * I think that, to move forward, we need an efficient meeting, and I'm
> afraid that it won't happen if we the meeting becomes big.
>
> Now, again, if the consensus is to do a users + developers meeting, then
> I'll be happy to help organizing it ;-)

I agree with Sylvain here. This developer's meeting *is* a users
meeting, Sylvain, Philippe, Stephen and me have been working together
with customers/users and gathering feedback. Much of my hidden work of
the last months was about taking that feedback into account. The same
case is made when others submit patches or projects: they're all user
driven.

Peter